I came to New York to attend NYU to study music business. Yeah, I was 16 years old. I turned 17 shortly thereafter but when I arrived in August of 2001, I was 16 years old. Chaotic to say the least, of course 9/11 happens just I believe my second week of classes. So that colors the memories of that time. But it was it was overwhelming in general. I mean I was on my own I went to go see Michael Jackson on September 10th, and I’m starting classes I was responsible for getting myself to classes every single day. You know, it was definitely overwhelming You know I came to New York University to study music business and part of the reason that I was so interested in music business was because I’d been such a big fan of Michael Jackson not only of his music and his dance and all that which is incredible but also of his business acumen, so I came to NYU knowing so much about publishing and royalty rates and things like that because I had studied all of his business deals. You know our first week of classes we had this program meeting that we would do which they were weekly assemblies where everybody in our major would get together and discuss things that were happening in the industry, we would have speakers come in from you know, various record labels or NARAS which, you know works with the Grammys and and different songwriters things like that and it was a time to come together and really assess the landscape of the music business and the very first program meeting I was introducing myself to the group as a whole and I don’t remember if I was running for some sort of like representative position or if I just wanted to introduce myself for whatever reason but I was wearing a Jackson’s Victory Tour t-shirt and it was vintage. I just bought it in the village and a young man came up to me and told me that he liked my shirt and that young man turned out to be Jordan Chandler. I have on the phone with me Investigative journalist Charles Thomson who is the winner of six national awards for his recent investigative work, exposing the Shoebury pedophile ring. So Charles, you sat in on a lot of pedophile cases what would you say are the main differences between the cases that you sat in on and the Michael Jackson case? Of course the first difference is that the cases that I covered were all criminal cases where there was no real financial incentive to make an allegation so, the motive of seeking millions of dollars is removed and then in the cases where we see convictions that I have been sitting in you had victims who were credible, who were consistent and that has never been the case in the allegations against Michael Jackson. They’ve never been consistent they’ve always turned out to be perjurers and people who were just looking for a payout. Michael Jackson was one of the most famous people on the planet It turns out he was also the target of intensive FBI scrutiny. Charles, I have also read that you have extensively studied the Michael Jackson FBI files what are the findings of the FBI files and whether child porn was ever discovered at Neverland? No child porn was ever found at Neverland and in fact, there was a story that said child porn had been found around the time of the trial and so the judge and the prosecutor, both release a stipulation publicly which was that no child pornography was ever found at Neverland at Michael Jackson properties. So, that’s not just something that fans say, that’s the judge in the trial and even the prosecutor said that there was no child porn. In terms of what the FBI files tell us… what they tell us is that for over a decade the FBI was intermittently involved in investigating Michael Jackson. There’s no evidence of sustained surveillance or sustained investigation only of the authorities occasionally calling the FBI to assist them with their investigation but nonetheless, the files tell us that more than 20 different FBI departments investigated Michael Jackson at one time or another and none of them found any evidence of any wrongdoing perhaps the most compelling piece of information that came out of those files was when the prosecutors in the 2003 to 2005 Arvizo case sent away all of the computers that they seized from Neverland for FBI analysis and the FBI was unable to find anything incriminating on a single one of them. So, the FBI files alone don’t exonerate Michael Jackson but it certainly don’t incriminate him. And in 2005, there was a study done by ABC with the top psychiatrists in the country and they’ve all concluded that Michael Jackson’s behavior would be very rare amongst pedophiles and there are other psychologists and psychiatrists who echoed that belief. Someone who is always trying to dispute that notion is a man named Jim Clemente. Jim Clemente to this day believes that Michael Jackson does fit the profile of a pedophile and that Michael Jackson did have child porn at Neverland. Clemente: They also found images and I think they were of a photoshoot with Michael Jackson’s nephew… Taj… I think he was still a teenager… and there’s a picture that’s on the internet.. that I It’s a picture of Michael. You see that? Woman: What? Oh my… yes…yes Clemente: So, there are pictures in the series where he’s actually he’s actually grabbing that cloth and trying to rip it off him laughing and joking and trying to get him naked I mean he’s virtually naked in this picture. This is his nephew… this 40 something year old man why’s he posing in a picture where Michael’s shirt is open exposing his chest and this kid’s chest Woman: He is basically naked. Clemente: His upper body is basically naked, he’s got no underwear on right next to Michael Jackson. I mean, It’s digusting. My name is Taj Jackson, I’m the nephew of Michael Jackson. You know, I know it’s not gonna be put to rest but I hope that it’s really put to rest because these pictures have been circulating, these pictures are annoying that they’re circulating you know we sued one of the tabloids because they said that they were child pornography and we had them retract that because that’s not what they were they were for an album, they were for a single cover ‘Why?’. Michael was doing the music video for ‘Stranger in Moscow’ at the time and we came down to visit him. But also we were like, let’s take this opportunity since we’re all here. Let’s do the ‘Why’ photo shoot as well. There was wardrobe there was a camera director there was makeup we wanted to do something edgy for our ‘Why’ photo shoot we wanted the guys and the girls and we thought we were too cute you know as 3T, like too sacren and we wanted to have some edge some, you know something to us It’s frustrating because this is what they do all the time… in this way. Luckily I was involved in it you know, this was my younger brother TJ if he was here, he’d be even probably more upset than I am right now. Like it’s implied that TJ was clueless or TJ didn’t know what was going on, TJ was very aware of what’s going on TJ wanted him to go farther. I was uncomfortable taking off my shirt and so I didn’t have to take off my shirt. It was never like he said no, you take off your shirt and you do this and that it was whatever we wanted to do, because we wanted to be edgy and it worked because people are talking about it. Now, unfortunately, they’re trying to dirty it, but it was edgy. He mentioned that you know, Michael’s laughing and that because we were joking we you know for us, you know, we wanted to do something edgy. But we always laugh when we were around my uncle and he laughed when he was around us. And so that’s should tell you something that there is no tension you’re not seeing our faces like we don’t want to do this or whatever because we were pushing him to do this. It really, it makes me feel angry to be honest. Just because that photo shoot was a great memory for me and to hear someone try and dirty it up in that way. The way they’re trying to twist it as if my uncle came and said hey I’m just gonna start ripping off clothes that’s farthest from the truth. There was plenty of people there you know that witnessed everything that would back up, you know, my story or my uncle’s story if he was alive. But at the same time this guy who basically is just guessing what happened at the photo shoot by pictures. What gets me upset is just people outside people judging my uncle without knowing the scenario. One thing I do want to say is, you know people like that, that just you know on the outside and he’s supposed to be a professional and you hear him he sounds giddy, you know, he sounds like someone that is just spiteful and hateful and it’s those kind of people like they need something in their life. They really do, you know, leave our family alone. You never done things and that was like missing in your life you just go back to do it and Mike just liked to just have great fun and the stuff he liked to do adults don’t like doing it. I think he had more fun hanging out with just everyday people that you didn’t even know who they were, you know either they were local people or tourists or whatever and He didn’t even know who they were he would just meet them and talk to them and get to know them a little bit ‘Hey, you want to come out to the ranch?’ You were invited to Michael Jackson’s Neverland before? I mean, It was amazing. I’ve been there probably 8 times. Yeah, I spent the night. The first time I ever went was actually the time I spent the night. He walked us through his entire house… his bedroom, his memorabilia room, bathrooms, every, every place in his house. We were like telling him how beautiful it was and he was like: ‘You’ve never been here before?’. And my friends and I looked at each other like: ‘No, we sure haven’t’, like when would we have been here, you know, so he would invite, if there were fans standing outside he would like see us and tell Violet who was security to let us in and he would just let us do whatever. So that speaks volumes to just how easily he trusts people to like come into his life even. Yeah. Unfortunately, he trusted a lot of people he shouldn’t have trusted in his life. Is that you know, they go ‘Oh, you slept in the same bedroom as him.’ It’s like I don’t think you understand Michael Jackson’s bedroom is two-storeys. and has like, like three bathrooms and this and that so when I slept at his bedroom, yeah but you have to understand the whole scenario and the thing is with Michael is that he’s not very good at explaining himself and he never really has been. Michael Jackson, his bedroom was two-storeys. So when you first walked in… I didn’t realize at first it was his bedroom because his bed wasn’t there on the bottom floor, but it was kind of very cluttered with a lot of things. I actually sat on his bed and he was just kind of talking about Neverland to us and that was surreal. Michael was going to Miami, so myself and a couple of friends flew in from Europe to spend some time with him. And before he had to go he told us that we could stay and that we can enjoy Neverland as much as we wanted. While the ranch manager took us to the main house he told me that Michael had said to give us the Royal Treatment and we sure got the Royal Treatment. When we went up to the main house all the staff were lined up on the stairs. So welcoming us and they told us that there we could move around as freely as we wanted to, there were no places that were off limits. And this was 16 years ago. So, it’s been a while but I just remember like being completely in shock the whole time. Most people, are just, can’t believe that… he let us in his house like that. Several weeks later after we had already come back to classes after 9/11. I was working as a work-study in the music department so he came in to register for private guitar lessons. He always carried his guitar with him everywhere he went. And, we had a nice conversation he remembered me from our program meeting we had a little chat, exchanged pleasantries and he gave me his form and as I went to register him for these private lessons I saw his name for the first time which was Jordan Chandler. And I believe he told me his first name, but I didn’t know his last name at that point and when I saw Jordan Chandler on a piece of paper, I just I couldn’t quite place it then either, it just sounded very very familiar and keep in mind at the time Jordan Chandler’s name wasn’t widely known because in the U.S. you know alleged crimes of sex abuse particularly when they’re minors are very protected. But I went online and I asked Jeeves, dating myself, and I suddenly realized that he was in fact the first accuser from 1993. The ’93 case is very interesting because it’s the only case that didn’t go to court. So Evan Chandler and June Chandler originally June Wong had a child named Jordan Chandler who turns out to be the first alleged victim. June Chandler divorced Evan Chandler and married a man named David Schwartz. Charles, can you tell me about Evan Chandler? So, Evan Chandler was born in New York He was born Evan Charmatz but he wanted a career as a screenwriter so he moved to California and changed his name from Charmatz to Chandler because he thought Charmatz was too Jewish sounding. He became a dentist but he didn’t really enjoy it and he also was not very good at it, and he was censored by the regulatory board for shoddy work. He had a very, kind of a, brief career as a screenwriter He got a screenwriting credit actually around 1993 on the film Robin Hood: Men in Tights the Mel Brooks film. Apparently he was working on Mel Brooks When he came up with the Men in Tights idea or he said his son came up with the Men in Tights idea, this is the same 13 year old boy and apparently maybe Mel was under some kind of ether or anesthetic, but he decided it was a great idea and went along with the dentist and they put the movie together. I would imagine a dentist to the stars would be exposed to a lot of the glamour in Hollywood. He can see his successful customers talking on the phone making deals and it looks so easy to someone on the outside, you know. And he figured he wanted to get a little piece of the pie and get you know, stop drilling teeth and maybe become a producer and really make some big bucks Michael Jackson is in Los Angeles with some of his team and they’re driving along Wilshire Boulevard in Beverly Hills and the car breaks down There’s a lady in the area who sees Michael Jackson stranded by the side of the road and calls her husband who works at a business called Rent-A-Wreck, which is a car rental business and Rent-A-Wreck is owned by Dave Schwartz. So Dave Schwartz calls his wife June because he knows that Jordan Chandler is a massive Michael Jackson fan. There was one employee at Rent-A-Wreck who said that when June arrived, she was kind of forcing Jordy on Michael Jackson. Almost like trying to emotionally blackmail him and so that’s how the numbers got exchanged and they ended up staying in touch. So, a friendship develops between Michael Jackson and the Chandler family excluding Evan Chandler. During this period, Michael Jackson will have stay-overs at their house. They would come over and sleepover at Michael Jackson’s house. Where is Evan Chandler during this period of time? Evan Chandler was pretty much an absent father, he owed almost 70 thousand dollars in unpaid child support. And he had been rowing with June about how infrequently he was seeing his son. She was trying to get Evan to take Jordan more often and he was refusing, he had his own new family. Like June did, he had remarried and had kids… with another lady. And they were struggling to get Evan to engage with Jordy. It was not until he discovered that his son was now friends with Michael Jackson that he suddenly became interested in seeing him again. And that’s how it leads to May of 1993. That is when Michael Jackson first meets Evan Chandler. They seemed to be getting on quite well. Evan even, at one point, asked him to build an extra wing onto the house so he could come and stay more often. And then when that idea didn’t work, he said well, I’ve got a better idea why don’t you just build me a new house. And then that didn’t happen either. June dropped the bombshell that she and Jordy were thinking of going on tour with Michael and then Evan who previously had been an absent father who wasn’t paying his child support and wasn’t really interested in seeing his son all of a sudden became enraged about the idea that Jordy would be out of the country for a few months and that was when the relationship took a dramatic turn towards the negative. What had happened was, Evan had begun making strange comments and threats to June and Dave and Jordy about Michael, that he was going to make allegations. He was behaving so erratically that that they feared he was going to do something crazy so the next time they spoke to him on the phone, they tape recorded him. This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief he will not believe what is going to happen to him, beyond his worst nightmares. he will not sell one more record. If I go through with this I win big time…I will get everything I want… They will be destroyed forever. He’s talking about how he’s furious that Michael has stopped phoning him and stopped taking his calls and how Michael has stolen his ex-wife and torn the family apart and how he’s plotting his revenge and he says everything is moving in accordance with a plan that’s not just mine. And this telephone conversation occurred before Jordan Chandler made any allegations against Michael Jackson and in this phone call Evan Chandler alludes to a nasty attorney. This attorney I found and I interviewed several and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find. Once I make that phone call this guy’s is just going to destroy everybody in sight. In any devious, nasty cruel way that he can do it. And I’ve given him full authority to do that. It will be a massacre, if I don’t get what I want. And the attorney he has hired is Barry Rothman. My name is Geraldine Hughes, I was the legal secretary in 1993 for Barry Rothman who was the attorney of Evan Chandler, the first accuser that came against Michael on child molestation. I was working for him, he hired me and I came in for an interview one day and he hired me for the job as his legal secretary. I was the only legal secretary for him. He was really an entertainment attorney and he had a history of being a good negotiator in the entertainment field though. Whenever Evan would call Barry Rothman’s office Barry Rothman would tell us to put the call on hold and he’d walk all the way back to his office shut the door and that’s how he took all of Evans calls. He was the only client he did that for, anybody else call, if he was at away from his office he’d just pick up the phone and say okay, you know say what he had to say and then he hang up. But he didn’t do that with Evan. Evan was always behind closed doors. Evan had already retained a lawyer Jordy Chandler was insisting that Michael had never touched him. Anthony Pellicano who was Michael’s private investigator. Pellicano goes around to interview Jordy Chandler and questions him for about an hour, I believe and asks him all sorts of pointed and very direct questions. ‘Have you ever seen Michael Jackson naked?’ ‘Have you ever been naked in bed with Michael Jackson?’ ‘Has he ever touched you?’ Etcetera, etcetera. And Jordy Chandler says no to everything, at the end of the conversation, Jordy Chandler reiterates that Michael’s never done anything wrong to him. And says, that his dad is just trying to get money. It started out a custody issue Evan Chandler wanted the custody of Jordy because in order to coerce a child into saying something that’s not true. You need time with that child. Evan Chandler goes to custody court and says I want to have a week of custody with my son. And June Chandler agrees, on the basis that he will be returned after 7 days. And he never gave him back. He kept him. He never brought him back and during that time that he had him He came into my office and he was behind closed doors with my attorney, the Jordy Chandler was, I actually opened up the door one day I was leaving and I opened up the door and Jordy was in the back and he kind of looked a little startled, when because I looked and I saw him and I was like nobody in the office knew that he was even there. You know, we’re like, how did he even get here? And I opened up the door So I had a few encounters with Jordy Chandler coming into the office and it to me, it just looked like a coaching session. While Jordy was in Evan’s custody, Evan sedated him with a drug called sodium amytal. Supposedly did a dental procedure, although, its a very dubious story that he’s telling there because there’s no reason to use sodium amytal if you’re doing a dental procedure. But, he gives him this drug which it has a reputation in the 80s as a truth serum problem is that Sodium amytal just in 1993 The evidence was just coming out that sodium amytal had been wrongly used as a truth serum for years if you look at journals today like ‘Psychology Today’, they say its completely false that anybody ever considered it a truth serum. It just wasn’t, what it did was it made people massively suggestible you could administer somebody with sodium amytal, and then plant an idea in their head and when they woke up, they would believe that it was true. So, I’m just gonna take a step back for everyone. Evan Chandler makes a phone call to David Schwartz talking about he is going to make allegations against Michael Jackson. Jordan chandler denies all allegations Evan Chandler gets custody of Jordan Chandler and never returns him It was supposed to be only for a week and during this period that Evan Chandler had Jordan Chandler there were numerous unethical methods that we know of being used against Jordan Chandler Notably, the use of sodium amytal and the coaching, the one-on-one coaching between Jordan Chandler and Barry Rothman. So by the end of Jordans stay he changes his story, he went into Evans custody saying that he wasn’t abused by Michael Jackson to now claiming that yes, in fact, I have been abused. So Charles with this new shocking statement by Jordan Chandler. What are Evan Chandler’s next moves? So after Jordy changes his story Evan instead of going straight to the police as you would expect a parent to do if their child had said that they’d been sexually abused by a man, he instead goes directly to Michael Jackson and his legal team and starts demanding 20 million dollars. But Evan had a desire to be a filmmaker. He was trying to get the money so he could make a movie. His lawyer gets in touch with Michael Jackson’s camp and says $20 million dollars and nobody will ever hear about these allegations. But Michael Jackson is adamant that he is not going to give Evan Chandler $20 million dollars. So, the counter-offer which comes back, a deal for 3 scripts and they say, you’ll be paid $350,000 per script. He said I’ll contribute that to your film project, just to give you and your son a chance to mend because at that time, Evan was saying he’s stolen my son’s affection. He’d put that in the paper work, he said he’s my son is being starstruck by this superstar he’s stolen my son’s affection. And so Michael just simply said this will be a great opportunity for you and Jordy to reconnect because you’ll be able to write them together. Rothman come back and say, ‘You’ve no idea what we’re asking for that’s less than $2 million dollars, you know, we’re not going for that.’ The next offer that comes in from Jackson’s camp is one single payment of $350,000. This amount shocked Barry Rothman because it was even lower than their first offer. So by now Chandler and Rothman figured out that Jackson camp was not serious about negotiating. So Evan Chandler suggests that he is willing to take the original 1 million dollar deal Pellicano responds, ‘That’s never going to happen.’ Meanwhile, the custody situation happens between Evan and June. But what happened was June filed an ex parte motion an ex parte motion means show up in court the next day. She was trying to get him back now, and so we typed a little declaration and they went to court they went to court on the ex parte but see he had been negotiating with Michael for a whole month for the 20 million dollars to make the movie. He goes to court on a hearing for the custody a family law judge, he said nothing to that judge about his suspicion or my child is I think my child is, you know being molested. He didn’t say anything. So the judge ordered him to return Jordy back instantly. And in order to maintain custody, Evan has to go to the psychiatrist and have Jordy disclose. I can promise you three days later is when we got the breaking news, so he never took him back he took him to the doctor that he had already queried about molestation. He sort of acts out of haste and goes and triggers the criminal proceedings as a knee-jerk reaction to the custody situation. And then that means he loses control of the situation and the negotiations cease because now the police are involved. This is NBC nightly news with Tom Brokaw Good evening Michael Jackson is in Bangkok, Thailand tonight where he has now postponed two concerts claiming that he is ill. While back in Los Angeles, there’s a press frenzy over investigations and a child abused by Jackson remains the Children’s Services report detailing the charges by a 13 year old boy that boy says he and Jackson often shared a The media went into a frenzy because after the Michael Jackson case kicked in basically their ratings went through the roof it was astronomical the difference that this story made to the ratings of shows like Hard Copy and Current Affair I cannot think of a story that’s bigger, I mean, this is the story if not of the decade was certainly of the decade, but probably of the Is one of the great stories in the century. This was an era with no internet and no social media and so there was a real thirst for knowledge about Michael Jackson because he was the biggest most famous person in the world. But people really knew basically nothing about him. There was a need to keep the story going every day they needed a new Michael Jackson story because that was where the ratings were coming from. So the impetus was there for journalists to seize on anything, anything that came up. Anything that looked like a scoop or a scandal or looked like it might bag them ratings they just ran with it. We will fly stories we will take a shred of fact and go with it like a great footballer with a bull we will spin down the field with that and try and score a goal with it. Maybe we will maybe we won’t but we’ll take a shred of evidence and try and turn it into a story. I will say that I am particularly upset by the handling of this mass matter by the incredible terrible mass media. At every opportunity the media has dissected and manipulated these allegations to reach their own conclusions. I ask all of you to wait and hear the truth before you label or condemn me, don’t treat me like a criminal as I am innocent. When you buy a story there’s always the shadow of doubt that are they telling you the truth or are they telling you what you want to hear. They started waving around 10,000 20,000 50,000 $100,000 to anybody that was prepared to say, I have met Michael Jackson and I’ve got something bad to say about him. Yeah
a friend of mine told National Enquirer that he knew someone from the family that knew the Jacksons and they call me on the phone and asked me come to the hotel I said I’m here to help Michael They said, ‘Oh no we don’t need anyone we want with you. We heard that, that your boys spent nights at the house. We want to know if Michael tampered with them.’ I just picked him up or touched them in any kind of way if he did we got 200,000 for you. I said, huh? He said you said well, look what I’m going to do. I’m going to draw a cheque up, a contract up and I’m going to show you before I give you $200,000. So then you go to Germany you get another 20,000 you go to Italy another 20,000. Before you know it you’re up a hundred and hundred, two hundred thousand dollars and that is enough for a family to come forward and talk. It happened repeatedly where people of dubious character were treated as credible sources when anybody with just a an iota of investigative savvy would know that these are not people that you want to be staking your reputation on they were people to change their story depending on how much money you offered them. The first time I heard the story about Jackson, his hand was outside the kids pants they were asking a 100 grand as soon as their price went up to 500 grand the hand went inside the pants, so come on. But basically La Toya you’re drawing your own conclusion that Michael abused young men young boys. No, I’m not drawing my own conclusion that he abused young boys. That’s totally, that’s totally wrong. I am NOT drawing my own conclusion. La Toya Jackson at the time was married to a man called Jack Gordon. Who was involved with Genovese Mafia. He was a very disturbed character violent and abusive. Pimped La Toya out like a prostitute he forced her to do semi-pornographic magazines shoots that kind of thing and if she disagreed with him or refused to do anything that he told her to then he would either beat her or threatened to have members of her family killed. This went on for many, many, many years. He literally said I’m gonna kill you, your brother everybody. Yes. No, not everybody. Just myself, Michael and Janet. This is not some excuse which has been dreamed up subsequently this was known and reported at the time. He grabbed a bedspread, he put it over her head started to strangle her with it at the same time he grabbed her arm and started to twist it so badly. And so all of a sudden, La Toya who had previously been speaking out in favor of Michael suddenly u-turned and started selling interviews claiming that her brother in fact was guilty early ’94 when La Toya appeared on an Australian TV show and the host of the show realized that there was something wrong with the situation. He realized that all of the answers that La Toya was giving were being fed to her by somebody else, who he identified on the show as her husband Jack Gordon. Well, Miss Jackson carried on with that nonsense for about another 25 minutes all the time being prompted by someone in the studio, but off-camera. Presumably her husband manager, Jack Gordon. People like you will let this go on and it’s very, very wrong. Who is talking to you in the background? I refuse to sit here and listen to you and listen to you talk this way I think it’s wrong of you, very wrong. Who’s talking to you in the background? I have nothing else to say to you, whatsoever. And when he questioned her about it on the air she just looked like a deer in the headlights and suddenly stood up and stormed off the show, wouldn’t answer any more questions. I can’t hear you but I definitely want you to hear what I’m saying because you do have the serious problem sir, whatever it is I don’t know, but you do need to go see a psychiatrist. Goodbye. Her husband decided that there was a lot of money to be made from switching sides and saying that Michael was guilty and indeed there was. After the allegation hit they prior to that they were on opposite end because June never did agree with the allegation. But after the allegation hit they were meeting in my attorney David Schwartz, June Chandler, Evan Chandler and my attorney they were all meeting behind closed doors in my Attorney’s office and I heard Evan blurt out, he says, ‘My ass is in danger of going to prison right here.’ Inside the law office the only thing they were asking for was money. Where’s his money, how much? They were sending discovery in and the discovery was only trying to find his money. That was crazy too, I’m like y’all just looking for money. You’re not looking for justice. You’re only looking for money. I mean my mind exploded when I found out who he was and I definitely told some people who were close to me I didn’t confront him though, because at that point in time, you know, I knew that I believed Michael was innocent. But the fact of matter is I didn’t know 100% and if there was even like one shred of doubt, I didn’t want to risk re-traumatizing somebody who was potentially a victim. And remember at that point in time, Jordan Chandler was the only accuser and the media certainly wasn’t focused on it they were more focused on you know, Michael Jackson’s new album release and you know, wasn’t all flattering but you know, it seemed like this this was, you know, water under the bridge and something that didn’t need to be addressed. He was a nice guy I mean, I’m gonna be honest he was, he was very nice always very polite. He would always carry a guitar around with him he made his own music. He would describe it as pop R&B like Michael Jackson. I remember that because he said that many times very clearly. He would wear fedoras Yeah, that was that was Jordan. What were your determinations when you examined he seemed to essentially be a healthy guy. The lupus is an autoimmune disease and he only had skin involvement which had destroyed part of the skin of his nose and his his nasal surgeries and all were really reconstructive to try and look normal. Lupus is an autoimmune disease as you said where the immune system one of our larger systems that’s designed to protect us against germs and viruses actually attacks our own body cells and tissues many patients with lupus have vitiligo but he had a form of skin lupus called discoid lupus which affects about 40% of the patients with lupus and you do get depigmentation. So Michael Jackson suffered from a skin disease called vitiligo he was accused throughout his career for decades by the media of deliberately bleaching his skin from brown to white because they said he hated his race. Is your skin lighter because you don’t like being black? He insisted throughout his life that he suffered from vitiligo. I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It’s something that I cannot help. In fact, when he passed away his autopsy report confirmed that he suffered from vitiligo. Now vitiligo is a disease which attacks the pigment in the skin and what it does it turns your skin a very very pale white color almost translucent. And it makes it very sensitive to the sun. One thing you say to lupus patients, don’t let the sun hit your skin. That’s right. So that umbrella, would you carry it out in the sun? It may have been just that. That’s exactly correct. It’s a very debilitating condition. So what it does it doesn’t you know, turn you from brown to white all in one go, of course it happens in very tiny increments and it happens at different speeds all over your body so it can leave you almost looking like paint splatter or blood splatter. Yes, it’s very random. It’s very interesting it affects the neck, the face, the upper part of the wrists and the groin. So the allegation by Evan Chandler was that his son could accurately describe discoloration on Michael Jackson’s genitals which have been caused by vitiligo. They seek and obtain a warrant which allows them to force Michael Jackson to submit to a naked photo shoot by the police. I have been forced to submit to a dehumanizing and humiliating examination by the Santa Barbara County Sheriff Department and the Los Angeles Police Department earlier this week. They served a search warrant on me which allowed them to view and photograph my body including my penis, my buttocks, my lower torso, thighs and any other area that they wanted. They were supposedly looking for any discoloration, spotting, blotches or other evidence of a skin color disorder called vitiligo. Which I have previously spoken about. The warrant also directed me to cooperate in any examination of my body by their physician to determine the condition of my skin including whether I have vitiligo or any other skin disorder. The book by Evan Chandler’s brother Ray, where he quotes Evan as having a discussion with his lawyer Larry Feldman, and they’re talking about the vitiligo situation. They’ve told the Chandlers that Michael has a skin condition called vitiligo and that the skin condition can constantly change the way that your body looks because it’s it’s constantly attacking the pigment and so the district attorney has told the Chandlers that this is great for them because if Jordan Chandler’s description matches, then it matches, but if it doesn’t match then they can say oh well that’s because of the vitiligo. So Larry Feldman says either way we win. So after they searched Michael Jackson’s body no arrest warrant was issued. Charles, what were the initial reports about this body search? In early ’94 law enforcement sources tell two different media outlets Reuters and USA Today that there is no match. Jordan Chandler’s drawing of Michael Jackson’s genitalia has since been leaked and when you really look at it with words such as ‘my theory’ and ‘be selective’ it’s questionable whether these are truly Jordan’s own descriptions or instructions from someone else. It’s also important to note that Evan Chandler has admittingly given Michael Jackson painkillers through injections to his buttocks. So, at the very least, Evan saw Jackson’s gluteus and that he had discoloration on his lower body region. The Smoking Gun obtains a document which is called they say the ‘Linden Affidavit’ is written by a detective Linden who works for the authorities that are investigating the Jordy Chandler case and she has taken from Jordy Chandler a description of Michael Jackson’s genitals. And Jordy Chandler tells Linden that Michael Jackson is circumcised. When they conduct the body search it turns out that Michael Jackson is in fact not circumcised. Meaning that his description has not matched. What had happened was Barry Rothman was being sued by Michael Jackson for extortion so he quits representing the Chandlers. The Chandler’s then proceeded to hire Gloria Allred who then proceeds to hold a press conference claiming that the Chandler’s are ready for a criminal case. To make a charge against the celebrity Gloria Allred is shortly fired, and Barry Rothman who is now working in the background offers Larry Feldman, as a replacement, an attorney who is willing to push for a civil case. Charles, what is the difference between a civil case and a criminal case? For anyone’s that’s listening that doesn’t know the difference a civil case is where you sue somebody and that’s for money and a criminal case is brought by the state, the government and that is a case where if you’re convicted, then you go to prison. So that they are two very separate processes. What happens is that the criminal case stalls because they can’t find any evidence to suggest that Michael’s done anything wrong so they raid his house, they don’t find anything incriminating. They raid his family home, they don’t find anything incriminating. They raid his doctor’s offices, they don’t find anything incriminating. Of course, you’ve got a boy at the center of the case who at first said he wasn’t molested. Then changed his mind and said he was molested, only changed his mind after being given sodium amytal. So then they go off looking for other victims and they can’t find any. In fact if anybody wants to go back to 1993 when I was interviewed by the Santa Barbara Police Department, I sat there and I gave them the names. They’re on record. They have all of this information, but they were scanning Michael Jackson. All they cared about was trying to find something on Michael Jackson. who Michael was innocent and that was what the interview was about with the police in 1993. I told them he is not that guy and they said well, maybe you just don’t understand your friend and I said no. I know the difference between pedophiles and somebody who’s not a pedophile because I’ve been molested. Here’s the names go investigate. So the criminal case is basically going nowhere and meanwhile, the civil case is moving through a court system at the usual speed so the judge in October of 1993 orders depositions. Now a deposition is where you are forced to state your case to give your evidence under oath. It can be done in court or it can be done under oath elsewhere and audio taped or videotaped. Now, he orders that Michael Jackson is to be deposed by January. The problem with this is that if you have a civil case which comes before the criminal case and you are forced to give away your defense then what that does it gives the prosecutors a front-row seat to your defense. They can then go and tailor their criminal case to circumvent your defense case. So for example, if you say “I have an alibi” in the civil case then the prosecutors can go and tailor their criminal case where they change all the dates and they could just change their case to get around it. If you have a witness, they go discredit that witness or they put it on a day when that witness was not there. They just take out your defense chunk by chunk so by the time you come into a Criminal Court where the only, where your life is on the line, your freedom rather than your bank balance, you have no defense. So, you’ve wasted your defense trying to save some money and now you go to prison. That’s the problem with a civil case preceding a criminal case. Now from October ’93 to January ’94 Michael’s defense goes back to court four different times and argues to the judge, we need the civil case delayed so it doesn’t precede the criminal case because this is unconstitutional. If you force our client to give away his defense, then you’re denying him his Constitutional right to a fair criminal trial. Michael Jackson lost two very important motions that he should have won One was a preference, preference has to do with either he was too young to remember and there’s a memory issue or he’s too old. Larry Feldman keeps arguing, is that because the complainant is a child his memory is not fully developed and he would be at risk of losing his memory if his testimony is not heard quickly. Jordy Chandler was 14 at the time. He wasn’t too young or too old. The Jackson lawyers are going to court again and again and again to try to get this deposition put back. To get the civil case put back so the criminal case can precede it. And the Chandlers are fighting hard to stop that from happening. Evan Chandler was asking the court to push the civil case before while the criminal case was gone because normally, the criminal case has to take precedence over the civil case. He shouldn’t have won on that one because constitutionally that went against Michael’s constitutional right. He won on that one too. Michael’s deposition is due on a particular date in January. What happens is initially he’s saved by the Los Angeles earthquake of ’94 which happens the day before he’s supposed to be deposed. That buys them an extra week but within that week they’re again not able to postpone the civil case deposition. When the judge is not ruling in your favor that tells an attorney maybe we need to settle this because he’s not ruling in our favor right now. And so on the eve of literally the night before he would have been forced to give away his defense under oath the civil settlement is reached. The civil case is settled. He was negotiating Johnnie Cochran came on board He was negotiating with the insurance company. At first the insurance company said no, they weren’t gonna pay it and he went back and forth back and forth. And he Johnnie Cochran negotiated he was a great negotiator because he was a PI attorney. He started out a PI attorney and he convinced the insurance company to pay the settlement. When Michael settled the case the judge, they made him drop his extortion claim so the real story hasn’t been told the real story is that Michael Jackson was the victim of an elaborate extortion scheme that launched the false allegation. Superstar Michael Jackson and the teenage boy who filed a civil molestation suit against him have reached a multi-million dollar out-of-court settlement. Attorneys on both sides appeared today at a joint press conference to announce a mutual resolution of the lawsuit. But lawyers are not discussing the actual amount of the settlement. Now the civil settlement includes a specific clause which says that it doesn’t preclude anybody involved from testifying in a criminal case and then to reiterate that at the press conference announcing the settlement Larry Feldman specifically denies that this will have any impact on the criminal case. Has Michael Jackson bought your client’s silence? I am not gonna have anything to do with talking about the terms of the settlement, and nobody’s bought anyone’s silence. A civil case is only about money. If they, you know, and I tell people this too we’re in a state where they could have went after criminal, him criminally and came back after the money. All they wanted, a lot of people think because he settled the civil case that that voided the criminal, that’s not true. It did not void the criminal the reason they never came after him criminally in ’93 because they couldn’t find any corroborating evidence to agree with Jordy Chandler’s story. As a matter of fact, they found out that the description he gave of Michael’s body was not accurate. If that was accurate, that was corroborating. As of, the summer 1994 the prosecution is running a Grand Jury long after the settlement and calls witnesses to the Grand Jury and questions them about whether Michael Jackson could have had plastic surgery to his penis to avoid a match. Now, why would they be doing that? Why would they be calling witnesses and asking those questions if in fact, the photographs had matched? See people need to know they never indicted Michael in ’93 because they couldn’t come up with enough evidence to indict him And so the way they spinning it they’re spinning it, well, oh he settled so that that voided the, no it did not. If it, if that prosecutor Tom Sneddon could find could have found anything to corroborate that boy’s story he would have still gone, gone after him criminally, too. Victor Gutierrez is a freelance reporter born in Chile. According to him, he first went to a NAMBLA meeting in 1986. What is NAMBLA? NAMBLA stands for North American Men Boy Love Association. So it’s basically a pro-pedophile group. Tell us about you infiltrating this group. Actually, the infiltration was fairly easy. They had a website. I paid $35. I joined the group. They sent me a letter praising me for my courageous step in joining the organization. I began to get emails from them, I would subscribe to their magazine. They started to send me their magazine but they wouldn’t allow me to attend any of their secret underground meetings until I’d been a member for three years and had been sponsored by another active duty member. Every conversation that I had was about where to go to have sex with little boys how they could attract little boys, how they could groom little boys. That was their agenda. So at this meeting he overhears conversations talking about how it would be great if Michael Jackson was a pedophile. Because if Michael Jackson is a pedophile that makes it easier for societies to accept pedophilia as a whole. So after this NAMBLA conference after this 1986 conference it becomes Victor Gutierrez’s mission to prove that Michael Jackson is a pedophile. He starts befriending Michael Jackson’s maids, former employees and he even approaches Joy Robson, Wade Robson’s, mother. Joy Robson subsequently told him to get lost and Joy Robson reported him to Michael Jackson. This is in 1992 before allegations of Michael Jackson even rose. So during the ’93 allegations Victor Gutierrez served as a source for many journalists including but are not limited to Diane Dimond and Maureen Orth. He also coaches Michael Jackson’s former employees such as his maids Blanca Francia, and Adrian McManus notable ones to sell their stories to tabloids. In 1996, Victor Gutierrez wrote a book titled ‘Michael Jackson was my Lover’ a book that glorified pedophilia through the relationship between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler The Chandler family has since dismissed Victor Gutierrez’s book as pure fiction. The Chandler’s Raymond Chandler released a book in 2004 titled, ‘All that Glitters’ Within days of Jordan Chandler and his family settling his 1993 lawsuit against Michael Jackson I received a call from Jordan’s uncle, he wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail the allegation of molestation against Michael Jackson and he said that Jordan’s father had given him all the information he needed for the book and he believed it was outside the bounds of the confidentiality agreement because he would be the author. After careful examination between ‘Michael Jackson was my Lover’ and ‘All that Glitters’, these two books we have found many instances of consistent storytelling between the two books. Especially from Evans point of view, at times the stories are even word-for-word the same. Truthfully speaking the only differences between the two books are the supposed sexual acts between Michael Jackson and Jordan Chandler. Now when you look at some of these parallel stories even deeper, Gutierrez’s book which preceded the Chandler’s book by seven years even sources some stories directly to Evan. So how would it be possible for Gutierrez to tell these confirmable stories first? ‘Michael Jackson was my Lover’ also featured many documents of the Chandler family that could only have come from Evan. This proves that Victor Gutierrez a man who has an agenda for pushing Michael Jackson as a pedophile a man who had coached people to lie against Michael Jackson was in fact connected to Evan Chandler, the father of the first accuser. We’ve gotten a constant stream of calls and letters from people making dubious claims about the singer, frankly we ignore most of them, but when I heard the facts of this story I just had to go to Canada and check it out myself. The journalist Diane Dimond got a tip from her source that a child had been molested by Michael Jackson. This child lived in Toronto, so she flew to Toronto with authorities to interview the boy. And I’d like to make a confession about something that happened between me and Michael Jackson And this child proceeded to tell wild stories with vivid details. He sort of just touched my stomach and he’d rub our stomach and then he’d get lower and then that’s when I started saying like, what are you doing? He said it’s okay, don’t worry bodies are meant to be touched. He showed me this place like a saddle shop where he said he said he gets stuff for his animals there I don’t know what he got but They’re gonna think you’re making it up. Yeah I know, I know but I don’t care about his money. He can keep it. His eyes are big, and they’re, they’re dark, cavernous like the sockets go right in, you know. We showed the boy several photographs some of them were of Neverland employees and he was able to identify each and every one of them. Yeah, that’s him. The one with the… that’s him. I found him fairly believable too. During police interviews the child broke down and confirmed that he had been coached. At the end it turned out he was coached by Rodney Allen. About Neverland, about Hayvenhurst, about Disneyland, about Michael Jackson’s body. Where did he get all that information? He got it from me. This kid is a A1, number one liar. Professional. Rodney Allen is currently serving a life sentence in a Canadian prison for pedophilia. Paula, a Michael Jackson investigator has confirmed through letters to Rodney Allen that Rodney Allen was in fact connected to Victor Gutierrez. In 1999, there was a blog post floating around the internet that was said to be written by Rodney Allen but no one took it seriously at the time because there were no evidence to who authored the post. Paula sent this blog post to Rodney Allen and Rodney Allen has since confirmed that he in fact did write this confession. And in the confession, this is what he talked about in regards to the Jordan Chandler case: This obviously doesn’t prove anything concrete but it’s still interesting that Rodney Allen a man who was connected to Victor Gutierrez a man who has a history of coaching kids to lie against Michael Jackson had that to say. The King of Pop chucks up a big win a Jury has awarded Michael Jackson a whopping 2.7 million dollars for a defamation lawsuit he filed against freelance writer, Victor Gutierrez. Gutierrez claims on a tabloid TV show that he’d seen a video of Jackson having sex with a boy. This guy made it up out of thin air maliciously to hurt Michael and he told anybody and everybody who would listen. When it came time to prove it in this court, he couldn’t prove it. Years later in the early 2000s, Victor Gutierrez again started spreading rumors regarding sexual abuse this time around the involvement of politicians in Chile. A boy claimed he participated in these sexual activities and was able to describe stories with vivid details, is later proven in court that the boy had never met this politician. While questioned the boy cannot even remember the politicians name had to be prompted by Victor Gutierrez off camera. It was later discovered that Gutierrez had paid this child around 10 to 20 thousand pesos. There were no other witnesses nor proof, just the words of a boy who were connected to Victor Gutierrez the same man, who was connected to Evan Chandler. And we also weren’t and I’ve been very transparent we weren’t best friends we weren’t very close I kept it you know him at arm’s length because I knew who he was and I didn’t really know how to deal with that and he was very close with I remember one other person in the program who also was sort of like pop R&B guy. I believe he did production and he also was a big Michael Jackson fan. So I mean of when I think about the people in the program that he I saw him with the people that he did surround himself with were people who were Michael Jackson fans, you know, I was told that at a party Jordan, you know played all of Michael’s music danced like him did all of his moves and that his apartment was almost sort of a shrine to Michael. That there was a lot of different like fan memorabilia It doesn’t surprise me that people are scared to come out because you know, I have some flexibility I work for myself if I were in a corporate job, I might be scared too because we don’t really know the we don’t really know who the powers could be, are behind ‘Leaving Neverland’ and you know to speak out at this point it might be cause a conflict of interest for somebody if they’re working with a big corporation. You know, it could have really harm their career. So I’m not surprised that people would be afraid to come out. So after the settlement Michael is married to Lisa Marie Presley and goes to work on an album called HIStory. At a warehouse in London staff listened to the long-awaited new songs today as they wrapped them ready to go on sale tomorrow the album called HIStory contains 15 old hits and 15 new songs. And much of the content of the HIStory album you could argue of course all art is subject to interpretation but it seems to be quite clearly influenced by what has happened to him during the Jordy Chandler legal situation. So why do we keep foolin’ ourselves Just because you read it in a magazine Or see it on the TV screen Don’t make it factual Though everybody wants to read all about it And also once married to Lisa Marie Presley and about to release the album he appears on Diane Sawyer alongside Lisa Marie Presley and does an interview and during that interview although he does not discuss any specifics of the Jordy Chandler case he does say that he’s innocent and that there’s no evidence to connect him to any crime. Police photographs that they took of me. Yes. There was nothing that matched me to those charges. Nothing. There was nothing. There was nothing that concurred. That’s why I’m sitting here talking to you today. Every, there was not one iota of information that was found that could connect me so when we’ve heard to these charges. Nothing. Now the combination of the album and the Diane Sawyer interview sends Evan Chandler into a rage and he claims that Michael Jackson has breached the non-disclosure part of the settlement agreement and so he files papers and the remedy that he’s seeking in this lawsuit is he wants 60 million dollars in damages and he also wants the court permission to also breach the nondisclosure agreement and release his own album called EVANstory. EVANstory. Yes so he basically went to court and tried to get a court order allowing him to release rebuttal album on top of seeking 60 million dollars that case rumbled on and on for about six years and eventually was tossed out of court, and he didn’t get anything he was asking for. You know in in just discussions You know, we were college students, you know, we would have our discussions about our parents and venting and that sort of thing. He said that he felt very used by his parents and that he wasn’t close to them. He never mentioned siblings either so I don’t know what was going on there, but he did say multiple times that he was not close to his family and they felt that he was used by them. I’m sure most of you are aware of the recent television special that claimed to give an honest, candid and revealing look Into the private life of one of the world’s most successful and controversial celebrities Michael Jackson. The revelations were explosive the ratings were enormous but what TV journalist Martin Bashir presented was a twisted and edited construction of scandal and Innuendo. Not a true representation of the interviews that actually took place. When ‘Living with Michael Jackson’ was released it reignited the discussion about whether or not Michael Jackson was a child molester. The film featured a close-up of Michael holding hands with Gavin Arvizo who was a cancer victim. Who then went on to be the accuser in the 2005 trial. And because of that shot and you know, the ratings behind ‘Living with Michael Jackson’ it was a huge topic of conversation in every area of my life particularly in my program meetings. Immediately after the Martin Bashir documentary aired we had a program meeting and there was a discussion about you know, whether or not Michael Jackson was a child molester, people were calling him freaks. These were people who did not have any fondness for Michael Jackson and I chimed in with my belief that I didn’t believe that Michael Jackson was a child molester and that the documentary was you know misleading and exploited him. During that conversation, Jordan Chandler chimed in and said that he too believed that Michael Jackson wasn’t capable of the things he was being accused of and he said that voluntarily and he said it without my prompting and he wasn’t asked. He wasn’t in the direct conversation no, I mean I was arguing with a group of maybe three other people and he, he was seated close to us, but he wasn’t in on this discussion and you know throughout the semester there were different occasions like that where he would again sort of reaffirm things that I said in defense of Michael Jackson and I remember that very first time I remember catching his eye. It was shocking that he would speak up and it really affirmed my belief that Michael was innocent and you know given things that Jordan had said separately having nothing to do with Michael Jackson, about his home life you know it affirmed my belief that he was a victim of his parents’ greed and that he was forced to say certain things. Because I really have a hard time believing that if he had been molested by Michael Jackson he would be going out of his way to say that he didn’t think he was capable of these things and I didn’t address it with him I mean, I was one I was very young and two I didn’t really know how important it would have been to address it then. These conversations all happened before Gavin Arvizo made any allegations against Michael Jackson. Gavin came to Michael and said Michael could we sleep in your room tonight? And Michael, Michael looked at me and says I don’t know, you know, I think you better ask your mother. Oh, we already asked our mother. She says sure, no problem. Like, no, this is something’s odd. This is not right and then as I was about to go tell Gavin that he cannot sleep in Michael’s room. Michael says, ‘Okay, I have a solution for this you have to sleep in the room with me.’ The two children slept on the bed and Michael and I slept on the floor. We’ve filed formal charges the felony criminal complaint against Mr. Jackson. The felony complaint involves nine counts seven counts of 288(a) in violation of California Penal Code commonly known as child molestation. Thursday jurors listened as the teen contradicted his brother and sisters testimony and couldn’t recall key details of the molestation allegations. The defense pointed out that in an early police interview the young accuser said his grandmother had told him about a certain type of sexual act even though he had testified that Jackson had told him about it. This young man in a moment of high emotion with this former dean looks the Dean in the eye and says no Michael Jackson didn’t molest me. I was on the witness list for the trial in 2005, because I spent the entire day with Gavin Arvizo at Neverland on February 19th 2003. This was the very same day that Gavin and his mother Janet accused Michael of inappropriate behavior. The day that they accused Michael of wrongdoing was a day that Gavin didn’t even see Michael instead he was with us having fun. In 2005, during the trial you were on the witness list. Yeah. We were on the witness list because when we stayed Neverland March 9th and 10th, Gavin Arvizo and his brother and sister were with us. And the reason why it was so important, the dates, is because Michael was supposedly abusing him until March 12th and we were there March 9th and 10th. Right, so when you were there. And that was not happening. I don’t know where prosecutors go from here I don’t know whether they can prevail and get the convictions that they want against Michael Jackson. Their main witness the accuser, the alleged victim in the case the one witness that the jury has to believe for prosecutors to win just wasn’t that believable and now prosecutors are stuck. The most dramatic part of their case the highest point of their case has already passed and they really haven’t sold the jury and it’s not going to get any better from them from here. The ’93 case, if they’d been able to try the ’93 case I think Michael Jackson being a lot more trouble than he is here. Well, yeah You only paid them 25 million dollars out of the goodness of his heart. Pivotal day in the Michael Jackson trial the judge in this case is set to make a ruling today if prosecutors can bring up previous child molestation allegations against Michael Jackson. One court observer calls these allegations the prosecution’s nuclear bomb. It is official the ruling that could make or break the case against Michael Jackson has been handed down jurors will hear about prior allegations of abuse by Michael Jackson. The trial here will have mini trial after mini trials as to other offenses it’ll be significantly longer but it’s significantly different that what we had last week or in the beginning of this trial up until last Friday. This is now a trial about pattern evidence about propensity and once a pedophile always a pedophile. I at that point was transferring out of the music business program and into the school of individualized study. So I no longer had classes with Jordan and I believe I wrote him an email I’m not 100% sure that I sent it. But if I did send it I didn’t get a response. I was approached initially very shortly after the Neverland raid by people who worked for the Jackson family who knew of me because of message boards and I was asked if I would give a statement and I did and I subsequently ended up on the witness list, yes. I mean there were certain members of the Jackson entourage I should say, who wanted me to do a little bit of a media tour, which I didn’t feel comfortable doing, you know during that time, I was approached by Stacy Brown who is known by Jackson fans as somebody who used to be very supportive of Michael Jackson and was very good friends with Rebbie Jackson, who then flipped and became an anti-Michael Jackson force in the tabloids. But during our conversations when he would call me he was very effusive in his praise of Michael and he would urge me to sort of I would say plump up my Jordan Chandler story. Which I never feel comfortable doing I only would say, you know exactly what I knew for a fact. But he even couraged me to say that I was Jordan’s girlfriend or that Jordan had a crush on me or something like that. And that was absolutely not true. In retrospect knowing how he turned on Michael I I feel like he did it as like a pre-emptive way to discredit me because you know if I were to lie about that, it would discredit my entire story. But I of course, was never willing to do that. And I take this very seriously. Like I firmly believe in due process and you know, it certainly wouldn’t have won me any favours industry-wide to testify in his trial and that’s something that perhaps I was a little naive about as a kid. But now that somebody who’s worked in the industry. I understand how things work I don’t think I understood the enormity at that time all I knew was that this was somebody whose life and livelihood was on the line and I had information that could potentially help him. So I felt it was my obligation and my duty. His name wasn’t widely known and from my discussions in the program I don’t think that there was really anybody else other than a very few people who knew who he was. So yeah, people could be sitting on information that they don’t even know is relevant. No, this doesn’t benefit my career at all. This doesn’t give me access to anything. I’m very much somebody who likes to be in the background, that’s why I do PR and publicity. Like I want my clients to be in the spotlight, but I myself you know, I kind of would prefer to hide. But I’m speaking out because you asked me to and because all of this nonsense is being rehashed and relitigated in the media and it’s ridiculous. You know, I understand that people would be skeptical of my story because I am a fan and I don’t hide that I’m a fan. But the fact of the matter is you know if I had even the slightest doubt that Michael Jackson was innocent I, I wouldn’t be speaking out. I heard directly from Jordan Chandler that he didn’t believe that Michael Jackson was capable of the things he was being accused of and that’s very powerful you know, every allegation since, is built upon the original 1993 allegation and I believe that if that one is false, which I do believe it is false all the rest crumble.